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[quote quote=471309]Les figurines envoient du lourd mais leur taille et le rapport au plateau les rend presque ridicules sans en savoir plus pour le moment ^^ »
Une partie des visuels visibles m’enchante moins car ne semble pas être de la même époque que le reste de ce qui a été montré jusqu’à maintenant.
Hâte de lire la review teasée 
Merci !
[/quote]
Pareil, des figurines 32mm auraient fait un meilleur effet.
Pour moi, c’est un debut de douche froide, mais je vais jeter un oeil au draft KS.
Quelques éléments montrés à UKGE, notamment tous les masques, à 12’55 :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hypz1kv1rOk
mouai ça m’a l’air fouillis un peu lol Pas super convaincu par les visuels, faut voir les mecas. y’a un interet aux fig la ?
Pas plus que pour Tainted Grail
Pour TG je trouve ça bien d’en avoir , ce n’est pas un jeu de figurines, contrairement à ether. Alors ça apporte une meilleure lisibilité et immersion que d’avoir des tokens imprimés .
Mais ouais je suis pas trop dans le mouvement pour l’instant sur ether.
[quote quote=471633]Pour TG je trouve ça bien d’en avoir , ce n’est pas un jeu de figurines, contrairement à ether. Alors ça apporte une meilleure lisibilité et immersion que d’avoir des tokens imprimés .
Mais ouais je suis pas trop dans le mouvement pour l’instant sur ether.
[/quote]
Pourquoi tu dis que ether est un jeu de figs? Pour le moment, on a vu 4 figs et surtout des cartes et des masques.
[quote quote=471565]Quelques éléments montrés à UKGE, notamment tous les masques, à 12’55 :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hypz1kv1rOk[/quote]
A 15’40", y’a même un aperçu du premier jeu gâteau à la crème au monde. Précurseurs !
Première impression après l’UKGE publié sur BGG
I've played a prototype at the UKGE, and I'll talk a bit about the experience here.I know the game theme is focused on dreams and a dreamworld, but for some reason I’ve always pictured it as a medieval set dream; That is definitely not the case as the scenario we played starts with us driving a car in the woods. In the scenario we were lost in the woods, and had to explore to find a way out.
Overall I felt like playing a detective game, having to explore the map to find clues and tools to solve the puzzle. The map is formed using tiles divided in 4 squares/spaces, and you have to spend one energy to move from one square to the next even if in the same tile, but once you reveal a new tile all of its 4 spaces are revealed at the same time.
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At the beginning everyone chooses a mask that gives each player a unique ability, and at the start of each round everyone gets 5 cards from their archetype deck. these cards all have yellow, green and/or red symbols on them that you can spend to do basic actions, and some have unique actions on themselves that you can use instead. Yellow symbols are used mostly to move, Red to fight and so on, and the players don’t really have an order to act, so I could do 3 things in a row and use all my cards while someone has even done anything. when everybody passed, we drew an event, moved the monster (if there was any on the table), got 5 more cards and started a new turn.
Likes
Exploration was really interesting, and I felt like trying to solve a puzzle. Revealing new areas of the map that joined together to form a bigger picture was exciting, and the artwork and minis are beautiful.Dislikes
The cards mechanic brought too much randomness to the game and felt themeless. I felt at times like playing Splendor, trying to collect enough colored symbols to perform something (e.g. 4 greens to reveal a tile, or 6 yellows to push the car). There was a moment where one of us couldn’t do anything his whole turn, because he had only green and red cards and you need yellow to move - imagine, an exploration game where you can’t move a whole turn because of an unlucky cards draft.Final word
The game is beautiful and the story-based exploration aspect is very interesting, but the current color-set collection mechanic feels pasted and non-immersive. This is still an early prototype, so I hope they change it to a more strategic and meaningful mechanic.Also, being a story-based exploration/puzzle solving game means it has a very limited replayability. Once you go through all the scenarios, all that is left is to pass it on to someone else or hope for expansions. Considering the top 2 games in the ranking are also like these, it shouldn’t be a deal breaker for many, but keep it in mind nevertheless.
Marcin a apporté quelques précisions
As for the randomness in cards colors, here are few points from us, as we have put a lot of thoughts into this
1) Prologe
What you have played was the very first scenario and we are HUGE fans of « open and play » approach, where you can start very early and then get more rules and advance mechanics as you play.
This lead us to make 80% of the cards in starting decks plane color /resources (just to make it really easy to pick up and play, instead of reading zilion of different abilities). Then, during the game you will be adding more and more much complex cards into your deck, that will help you change resources, craft combos etc.2) Luck dice
In every action (even as simple as movement), you can always roll luck die that will add you resources. Obviously, there is a risk - you might get nothing and waste what you have paid without dice or even get a wound. But there is a possibility to push your luck there3) Items
You can also spend items as resources and again, while starting the game you have very limited amount of it, later in game you will find A LOT of tools to mitigate resources and craft combos. They can be used by every part of the group at any moment, so that makes it even easier.4) Crystals
During game you can also gain crystals, that will go with you through all next scenarios. They guarantee you resource, even without a card.
Again, in prologue it is not that visible, cos this is the very start of the game, but this mechanic helps quite fast later on in the game.But thanks for your feedback, we will definitely have a look at it! It is a prototype indeed and some things will change (for the better lets hope
).
Sans oublier une annonce pour une video
We go right back to work full of enthusiasm and even more motivationNext week I will make a video out of things we have recorded at fairs, so stay tuned!
merci très intéressant !
mais ce qui ma fait tiqué c’est apparemment, un manque de rejouabilité et un effet kleenex… sniff
marcin, n’en a rien dit, si j’ai bien lu… dommage
mais comme il a dit, bien des choses peuvent encore changer … affaire à suivre donc 
Ce premier retour n’est en effet pas très élogieux.
Ajouté au visuels précédent, cela calme pas mal.
A suivre toujours néanmoins.
Merci pour les info !
Il ne dit rien de précis concernant la rejouabilité, mais il dit bien que le jeu ne sera pas aussi simple que le premier scénario et que la compléxité ira croissante. Donc, de fait, j’imagine que l’on aura accès à certaines cartes pouvant augmenter la rejouabilité qu’après plusieurs partie, en débloquant l’accès à certaines cartes. Un peu comme dans It’s a Wonderful World, dont certaines cartes ne seront disponibles qu’une fois les campagnes terminées…
Du moins, c’est comme ça que je le vois, mais je peux me tromper.
Entre un mix Time Stories et Unlock il n’y a qu’un pas :mrgreen:
après je pense, qu’il y a une différence entre un jeu qui à été penser nativement pour être rejouable ( en profondeur ) et un jeu peut présenter quelques éléments de rejouabilité …
a titre d’exemple ( si c’est bien le cas pour Ether ), c’est comme de le comparé a TG.
TG a été penser, créer pour offrir une vrai rejouabilité en profondeur de toute la campagne, là ou peut être Ether ne l’est que superficiellement, avec peut être des effets de cartes, ou objets qui pourrais te servir plus tard, etc …
mais après ça peut être un choix éditorial d’offrir un jeu narratif one-shot qui ce respect, comme gloomhaven, time stories, etc…
c’est juste que j’ai du mal avec ça… un très bon jeu pour moi doit permettre une rejouabilité digne de ce nom.
( d’autant plus pour un RPG/narratif en campagne. )
Je sais que tu es un super enthousiaste (trop?) et support d’AR/TG mais je ne crois absolument pas qu’en vrai la rejouabilité soit si profonde que ça, ils devront régulièrement raccrocher les wagons entre eux.
Idem, je ne suis pas du tout persuadé que la rejouabilité de TG soit si bonne que ça…
C’est pas un problème pour moi mais je pense qu’il ne faut pas non plus survendre le jeu à tout prix…
[quote quote=472081]Je sais que tu es un super enthousiaste (trop?) et support d’AR/TG mais je ne crois absolument pas qu’en vrai la rejouabilité soit si profonde que ça, ils devront régulièrement raccrocher les wagons entre eux.
[/quote]
désolé si je peut me montrer peut être un peut trop à fond sur TG en ce moment, mais pour être exacte, je ne crois pas avoir eu un tel coup de coeur " potentiel" pour un tel jeu, depuis le 7th continent.
j’ai soutenue le 7th continent avec le succès que l’on lui connait désormais aujourd’hui, si TG peut faire aussi bien ou mieux, alors je serais juste content.
après je ne peut juger, pour l’instant que de ce que je peut lire et voir ici et là…
si demain, je trouve le jeu moyen ou bancale, ou que je suis tout simplement déçu, je ne me priverais pas de le dire… je garde mon libre arbitre, crois moi .
après pour la rejouabilité, je pense qu’elle sera correcte, d’après ce que j’en ai compris et lus/vus sur des forums et vidéos anglophone.
En tout cas, tout à fait correcte pour un jeu narratif avec un scénario très présent. (car on n’est pas là dans un jeu full random, non plus )
bcp d’embranchement, de choix , des conséquences, des caractéristiques qui vont influer la manière de jouer, des objets et cartes rares et des embranchement qui débanderons de si tu joue tel ou tel perso, etc…
ça me parait déjà mieux que la plus part des jeux que l’on peut croiser ici et là… on peut faire encore mieux sans doute et tant mieux d’un côté, mais c’est pas si souvent .
Pour la rejouabilité il y a un début de réponse dans le très intéressant journal de bord de Michał Oracz
Hey Everyone!First of all, I wanted to thank you all for such a warm reception of first part of designer diary. It is great to see that some of you are interested in the game and reasoning behind designing it.
This part will be dedicated to 3 topics: Learning curve, replayability and gimmicks.
Learning Curve - biggest entry level to Board Games
I personally feel, that one of the limits in the BG industry limiting its full potential are long manuals and very often unreasonable learning curve. Opening a new (complicated) game to try it out is mostly connected to sitting down and reading the rules for 1-2 hours.
This very often turns away people who would love to play given title, but they will never go through a wall of complicated rules.[attachment file=472151]
This problem was present in video games industry - long time ago games didn’t have tutorials, but instead they came with a manual inside the box. You just had to read them before playing. But video games adapted very early and created a learning curve, where you will start playing right away and then learn step by step.
I love this concept and tried to implement it in This War of Mine: TBG - but there are few quite big traps with it. First of all is the lack of summary of the rules - whenever you are making a step-by-step in-game tutorials it have a very specific composition. This composition very often is hard to navigate when you want to go back to find some rule.
A good solution to that is to adding both: Open and play mechanism and a regular manual to the game, so that you can have a « soft » launch into the rules, but whenever you will need anything specific you will have a well sorted manual for that.[attachment file=472152]
Another potential trap is making a game that will seem flat at first few hours and only start to be interesting after some time. This aspect is quite hard to balance and requires a lot of testing, to know exactly where is a good moment to add more gameplay.
In Etherfields, I wanted to implement this new approach of learning of the game, but put it onto another level. I wanted players to never feel like they know everything about the game - this is a dream world, rules can change here quite rapidly (obviously it needs to be done in a fair way to the players). Throughout the game you will be finding more and more interesting changes - perhaps things you were taking for granted or obvious were not so obvious after all…?
In addition to that, there will be a small « finders » rules, that will not be crucial to the game, but a perceptive player will be able to find them and utilize for his own gain. Whats important is that all those rules will be gathered easily in one place.[attachment file=472153]
In Etherfields both rules and your starting deck will be quite easy at the very start, that will make new commerce comfortable learn the basic rules. But from the very first dreams you will need to learn and adapt - make hard decisions and add much more complicated cards. Build your own « engines » within the game, awesome combos and reality-breaking cards. Players will have TONS of customization to do, there is huge amount of cards to be added and craft countless different decks from new passive / actions or resources. If you add to that items and the co-operation combo aspect of the game - you will end up with so many different complex possibilities! You will be building those deck through out the campaign (by buying or getting read of cards) and in each single scenario (building from what we have in deck, so that it will fit best current scenario).
Replayability aspectOne of the very strong aspect of Etherfields will be story. With every story focused game, 3 important questions comes to mind: Is it a legacy game? How long the content will last for? How about replayability?
First of all - Etherfields will not be a legacy game. There is no destroying or overwriting components - there is a lot of campaign play thou and almost every aspect of the game is deck-builded based on your decision. So it might have a little of this legacy feel, after finishing the game it will be good to play again.
[attachment file=472154]
As for the time we are planning - it should be around 40-60 hours for the Core Box and then hopefully quite some more with unlocked Stretch Goals during the campaign. As you can see, the hour spread is quite large, but different groups of people (or solo players) can play the game very differently. Some of them might think and discuss their actions - others will just do fast intuition decisions. One group can focus on main story line - others might want to focus on sandbox aspect of the game.
Replaybility will be possible, but obviously limited to some point. I like to compare good story Board Game to a good video game RPG - you will know all the main story bits, but you will be able to take different decisions that will lead you to different results. In Etherfields I am planning a lot of branching storylines and side quests. During one play through will be impossible to finish everything.
Gimmicks
Last but not least - things that will create a small « wow » effect. Etherfields is a perfect playing ground for out of the box small mechanics that will keep you surprised - it is a dream world after all!
Starting from implementing different form of puzzles, through emotion / states Masks choices up to building a « house of cards » that will be a risky maneuver for your character. Gimmicks are never a core of the gameplay - I often see them as cheery on top, something that will make you and your friends excited for a few moments and will break the game in positive way from time to time. But they keep you engaged and creates a huge fun factor.
Et un nouvel artwork
In dreams, reality can be very easily bent to your will - we have a lot of action cards, that will do just that[attachment file=472155]
Bon, bah on en sait un peu plus sur la question de la rejouabilité du jeu. 40-60 heures de jeu, ça me semble déjà excellent, même si la rejouabilité n’est pas énorme derrière. Reste à savoir si la qualité sera au rendez-vous, comme on l’espère.
Pas suffisamment pour faire véritablement monter la hype, mais je reste aussi intrigué par le jeu et son univers que je l’étais avant ce nouveau billet.